One of the most significant lessons I have learned is that
“submission” is NOT the same thing as “obedience”.
Walking in “obedience” was death to me.
Walking in godly submission is LIFE!
Charis 
“The aged women
teach the young women
to be obedient
to their own husbands,
that the word of God be not blasphemed.”
Titus 2:3-5 excerpts
I am confident that none of us wants to be guilty of blaspheming God’s Word!
As a disciple of Christ, a woman, and a wife, I cannot overemphasize the importance to me of accurately understanding exactly what the passage teaches so that I may properly obey the teaching!
to be obedient
In order to accurately teach others “to be _____”, one must first establish exactly what ____ means. In this case, it is necessary to look back into the Greek words of the original autographs of scriptures, lest one be led astray by a fatal misunderstanding of the meaning of this passage (as I was for many years).
The word translated “obedient” is the Greek Word “hupotasso” < 5293> which means “submission”. There is another Greek word which means “obedient”. That is the word <5219> ” hupakouo” ( the linked Strong’s numbers go to the BLB concordance which contains the definition and all the occurances of the word in the Bible)
One of the most significant lessons I have learned is that “submission” is NOT the same thing as “obedience”. Walking in “obedience” was death to me. Walking in godly submission is LIFE!
When I believed that my husband was “in charge” of me and I attempted to walk in obedience to him, I was committing the sin of idolatry.
I was rendering lordship and masterhood to my husband instead of God.
I confused obedience and submission. I thought obedience to my husband = submission. So I obeyed my husband and in so doing
-sinned against God
-enabled husband’s sin
-lied to the Holy Spirit
-could NOT maintain a good attitude,
ie despite my obedience in every matter, I was resentful and bitter.
Ultimately, in my attempt to “serve two masters” I came to despise my husband.
Lu 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
I find that genuine submission “as unto the Lord” is incredibly freeing and powerful! Because I am looking to the LORD for my guidance and instructions, not to my husband. The Lord has entrusted me with gifts, talents, abilities, and responsibilities and HE has given me wisdom, a conscience, and HIS Holy Spirit as counselor. Allowing myself to be run like an appliance from the outside was an affront to the God who made me and gave me good gifts. Not only that, I really know far more about running the household than my husband does and his micromanagement wasted many many hours of my and my children’s time on less efficient routes.
Woman can never be matured as a useful instrument in God’s hands, or an efficient servant of His Church, until she comes to understand that “she is not her own; she is bought with a price,” and it is neither her duty nor her privilege to give herself away to any human being,¾in marriage or in any other way….There is no social redemption for woman until…she maintains the inviolability of free will, as her sustained attitude towards every human being, including her husband. There is no method of moral improvement remaining, after the loss of a free will” from link
In giving myself away to be treated
in marriage
as a child or a slave (who MUST OBEY),
I gave up my free will,
and I remained immature.
It took me quite awhile-years- to untangle my mind from the idea that “husband is master”. When I believed that way, and confused the concept of “submission” and “obedience”, I would “obey” my husband’s every whim, but I was very unhappy about it! I was resentful and bitter. Which it turns out, is not submission at all! None of the teaching in God’s Word on a wife’s submission robs her of the right and freedom to say “no” (or “yes”).
Abigail in 1 Sam 25 is a submissive wife who disobeys.
Esther is a submissive wife who disobeys.
Sapphira (Acts 5) is a wife who should have told her husband “no” but instead goes along with him agreeing to “lie to the Holy Spirit”.
This page has the following sub pages.
Good website here. keep up the good work.
grace and peace,
Hi Charis, I love your site.
I’ve come to the conclusion about how God allowed women to be put into submission and oppressed by men for so many centuries.
To truly walk with God we all need to be humble and submit to His will. Women do this much more easily then men bc we’ve had so much practice. It has worked for our benefit in the long run. It was not God’s plan and any real Christian man would not abuse his wife but in the scheme of things men have actually handicapped themselves by not allowing women to be as supportive to them and the handicapped themselves by not learning to submit to God.
Per usual when mankind is in control they mess it up. If they had expressed the true heart of God they would have wanted the best for all and in return gotten twice the blessing instead of crippling half the population.
Women hold responsibility for this also – we have been raising children for as long as men have been dominating women…we didn’t teach our boys any better then that either. Even with the predominantly female heads of households in today’s world. Women do not teach or demand respect.
Be blessed dear….
caleb411
[...] Obey? [...]
hi,
this is not for the web – but i so wanted to write to you.
i am a married man – and i am a lover of Gods word – i agree with everything i have read to date on your blog – i have not read all. – just those parts to do with my own search.
the position that many ‘ministers’ and men would put women in and under is cause for tears. especially when i read women who write to agree with such subjugation – as some do.
with love and very best regards – keep going
denis
Dear Denis,
I know you didn’t necessarily post to have your comment published, but I hope you don’t mind my taking the liberty. I think many who read this blog will be encouraged to know that there are men out there with the discernment to see through the outward appeal of the shiny appealing “fruit” of husband rule which becomes deadly upon consumption.
May your tribe increase!
With love and best regards to you too!
Charis
Do husbands have your permission to be masculine and authoritative as outlined by the word? How do you ascribe idolatry to the biblical command that wives obey their husbands? You obey the cops when they tell you to get out of the car, don’t you. So if the hubby doesn’t have a badge, I guess he doesn’t have authority, eh?
Our society has so emasculated men and the laws are so tilted against husbands that if a man is masculine and authoritative, he is viewed as a tyrant or assumed to be abusive. To be a strong man in marriage is to invite criticism… and God-forbid his wife obey him– that man is a taskmaster!
We do our marriages such a disservice by trying to equalize husbands and wives in terms of authority. There are hierarchies in all other relational structures, including families. But among husbands and wives, now there is where we MUST have absolute, across-the-board equality! But is that a proper exegesis of the bible– both considering the Greek (as the writers on this site seem so fond of) and the examples given throughout? This flattening of the marital hierarchy is a disservice to Christian couples. Wives should obey the one whom God will call to account on judgment day for the state of the marriage, family, and home– the husband!
Okay, ino.
First of all there is no verse in all of the Bible, no direct word from God telling men that they are the authority over their wives. They don’t have a badge because God never gave them one, literally or symbolically.
IT DOES NOT EXIST.
Men just assume it indirectly from a few things said to women.
Men and women were created to be partners.
The word translated helper for the woman is also used for God to mean a mighty help, NOT a subserviant help.
The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force.
Men are in charge, not because God commanded them to be, but because they took it by brute strength. By sin.
Then they wax on long and hard about how the Bible made them do it. How the Bible commanded them to do it. Something the Bible never does.
I have a husband with a brain-disorder.
I submit to him in that I overlook much that he does in order to keep peace in the marriage.
He’s unreasonable and verbally abusive to me and my children. Though I’ve tried to encourage my children to respect him, they don’t because HE destroyed that in them.
I’m sorry for that. He needs to go get treated but he refuses to. Instead he self-medicates with alcohol which makes it worse.
Don’t come here and tell me I’m in rebellion. I’ve already tolerataed far more than most women will. To obey him is to sin because he calls on me to sin because he’s in sin. Plus the Bible NEVER tells me to obey him. NEVER. This is just a figment of your male-entitled/privileged imagination.
Go read what the Bible really says and stop bringing your warped view here. It doesn’t belong.
Ino,
What I wonder is WHY it seems so necessary to have wives obey husbands? What do they want obedience for? What do they want to be masculine about exactly?
I actually honestly don’t get it.
Respect is something that has to be earned. I have that respect in my home. The best kind of leadership is the kind that encourages others to follow. So it seems to me that if we were to look at hierachies outside the family the principle “there are no bad units, only bad leaders” applies here. So for those men who don’t like women examining whether or not they need do obey, I would suggest that they stop worrying about it and just do their best to lead well if that’s what they’re going to do.
- Rob
Hi Rob,
Our culture says “WHY (does) it seems so necessary to have wives obey husbands?”
The Bible commands wives to obey their husbands. It began with Adam and Eve and extends to all marriages through today.
Our culture says “Respect is something that has to be earned.”
The Bible commands the wife to respect her husband.
Are we as Christians going to submit ourselves to the teachings of the Bible or defer to the conventional “wisdom” of our culture?
(Please read my other replies to your other comments–I think you’ll understand where I’m coming from.)
no matter what we as women are called to obey our husbands .. The bible makes it very clear… but the husband has a responsibility as well and that is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church.. that is a high calling.
It is easy for a wife to obey her husband when he is loving her with the Love of Christ.
Peace and blessings in Christ!!!
I appreciate your thoughts about obedience being stifling and understand where you’re coming from.
However, I’m a bit confused by your hairsplitting between obedience and submission.
How can regularly telling your husband “no” be submissive? If the model is the relationship between Christ and His Father, or between Christ and His Church, Is that what Christ did? Did he say, “Father, I don’t like what you’re asking me to do, so I’m not going to do it.”
Submission is a higher law–not contradictory to the idea of obedience, but supporting it, and adding in the principal of free will. A slave (or servant, or employee) can be obedient to a master against his will–just because the master forces this obedience. The slave hasn’t voluntarily submitted to the master’s will–may actively hate and even try to go against the master’s will. That’s why this can be stifling and miserable.
Submission, as I see it means actively expressing your opinion, even strongly and persistently advocating for your view. But at the same time, going along with, and yes, even obeying, another person’s will–even if that doesn’t match up with your will. All of us do this all the time. Men do this all the time with their bosses at work, or with other authorities.
Jesus’ prayer in John 17 is an excellent example of this.
I don’t see how you can disobey and still submit your will to another. Submission is an active, voluntary effort to go above and beyond obedience–to actively seek for ways to align your will with another person, even if they’ve not told you a thing to do, even if you have no specific direction from them that you could obey.
I’d be interested in your answer to this from a doctrinal perspective.
Strong Man,
I visited your blog. Interesting to read that your perspective as a good Mormon differs little from that of fundamentalist Christians such as Mark Driscoll, John Piper, and Bruce Ware.
Unfortunately, I don’t have time to get into a long theological discussion at the moment, but I have covered fairly exhaustively what I think the passages about wife submission in the Bible are really saying. See:
Trading the Double Bind for the Double Bond:
Overlooked Grammatical Details Shed New Light on
“Wives are Subject to Their Own Husbands in Everything” Ephesians 5:24 (pdf)
Your wife is indeed SUBJECT to you as the church IS SUBJECT to Christ and as the devils ARE SUBJECT to the apostles (Irresistible Submission: of devils to apostles and wives to husbands) but I’m afraid this doesn’t mean what you think it means!
Thank you for visiting! I’ve also read your Double Bond article and it matches much of what I believe, although I don’t find much additional value in debating the semantics of “subject to” and “submit to.”
As Mormons, our primary claim is that we belong to the re-established original Christian Church, which is now called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
So, I usually find the closest alignment in my beliefs among others who are striving to follow Biblical teachings, although I had to lookup all three of the names you mentioned. I try to follow the Bible, not other people who then tell me what the Bible says.
Although I do feel my personal perspective matches the doctrine of the Bible and the teachings of my Mormon faith, my views would probably unpopular among many of my peers in my own congregation.
The idea of woman submitting to her husband is definitely not emphasized and very rarely taught (mentioned less than once a year in church)–that’s why I felt the need for my blog. Sermons are much more common about avoiding abuse, shunning “unrighteous dominion,” and not abusing authority.
Thank you again for visiting.
Hi Charis.
Excellent site.
You contrast “no one can serve two masters” with “as to the Lord.” The second contradict the first by the regular understanding of it, but do you have a link where the true meaning of “as to the Lord” is explained?
I know the Bible does not contradict itself.
Thank you, Retha, I enjoyed perusing your blog too!
I like Waneta Dawn’s take on “as to the Lord”. Here is a link: Institution of Submission—As to the Lord
Also see my pictorial here.
Hi Retha!
This is Mara from Wintery’s blog.
Charis is an old friend of mine (in internet/blog years).
I hope you browse a bit more. She has a lot of insightful stuff to look through.
Long time no write here, Anyhoo,
being that I no longer prescribe to the Word [bible] being the inspired Word of God with no deliberate manipulations by men of 300 A.D. of the Roman Empire who took a bastion of Christian-Pagan beliefs of the SLAVES and utilized them for a one world Roman controlled religion to off set th
the northern invasions, etc., [too much historical proof of this]
and being that so much of the earlier Christians who Could write [most could not as they were slaves] and those writings were destroyed and those Christians of numerous sects were killed by the very Canon MEN of 300 a.d. and beyond,
and I won’t go into all the other Men’s manipulation via kings and corruption that went into the making of bible [including distortions of Judaic texts post Exile]
I now take the Bible with a grain of salt, take what I can and dump the rest,
and rely on walking With God/Spirit instead, Anyhoo,
on the whole submission thing, being that FACT the majority of women were slaves/which means SEX SLAVES to Roman elitist families then [in Jerusalem] and that there was numerous of these slaves a mix of pagan religions of that region plus Jew, and how mini-families of slaves were formed within the master’s house [just like in African American slavery, btw many of them also think along the lines that I have concluded] and original families were split up/marriages, etc., on the Auction slave bloc
and there WAS a hierarchy among the slaves with the higher skilled ones used as ‘trustees’ over the illiterate/non-skilled, the meaning of submission carries a different twist,
while it means to ‘obey’ in some forms it also means ‘to be under like how a Submarine is under a Ship, submerged’, this is Also noted ‘code’ resistance in any Slave revolt,
to be under, meaning underground, to be hidden, to be secretive
of course 300 years later the Roman’s had already figured out the strategies of the Martyrs who preferred death to life as a slavery under such brutality that death was preferable, FACT,
in fact, slaves [where I believe the whole mark on forehead comes from in Rev] were tattooed with markings on their foreheads/hands [if hands not cut off, a Usual punishment for the Slightest of offenses, like if a woman didn't suck a man to his liking, sorry to be blunt but THAT was the reality of Slavery in Judao-ROME], and anyway slaves had markings scarred into their forehead so that IF they ran away, they would be returned to their rightful owner…
it was no ‘nice slavery’, horrible brutal rapes, cutting off of hands, burnings, tortures, were norm,
so martyrdom was a type of Revolt, in fact suicide rates among Women slaves in Rome was astronomically high, the religious cults who relied on suicide, including putting oneself into a position where the Roman authorities WOULD kill them [and crucifixion was the usual terrorizing public death and they were Crucified until the vultures ate the bodies IN public, hung naked/men and women, to terrorize any challenger to the system, historical FACT],
so to ‘submit’ takes on different meaning…because to submit, be under, was also the means in which Christians [and other revolts via suicide/martyrdom which btw, hurt the Roman empire because slaves lost meant Money lost, this is Why the Catholic church added much about suicide being sin, that wasn't There in Judaic writings, the Catholics or Rome added that one, esp when setting up feudal 'friendly slavery' society,
Therefore, taking the historical Context, and well, depending on which letters Paul actually wrote and those we he did not, then it is obvious that Submission does in no way mean,
what it's been construed under the feudalistic remnants of Roman Catholicism statehood NOR Calvinist-Luther King and Queen statehood [also feudalistic],
the term submission took on a different meaning…which basically was this,
a clever psychological tool for the State/Church [mingled and in support of one another] for the use of fear mixed with the new religion to Enforce CLASS ROLES,
this I believe is what causes much of the confusion between Greek texts compared to the Vulgate [Latin] to the English,
the use of words, due to the make up of the society/slavery infrastructure carry with them different meanings,
therefore, I would suspect, for those of Serious Bible [and if they are Authentic or not] scholars, that the context of the historical structure of Roman-Judao society [and not mysticism and fairy tales] be taken into consideration for a deeper meaning as to what many of the word to mouth messages truly meant,
it is difficult for many in modern society to grasp understanding of this very real Possibility simply because they -we do NOT live in a horrid extremely Violent imposed slavery like they did Then,
therefore, numerous terms would in no way Have the same meaning and therefore to glean some doctrine from ancient meanings…and applying them today,
might Very well be in fact, Opposed to the very doctrines the early Christian sects Were passing forward and living by.
Just saying,
Jane
Oh, I should clarify, the studies I have done/research into ancient slavery, the majority of Jewish women in Jerusalem under Roman colonization were yes, Sex slaves,
they were not allowed to marry within the slavery families, only the Roman elites and CITIZEN could marry, fact. Historical fact,
which was what Lead me to Seriously question the legitimacy of the Pauline letters and Bible in of itself, the fact that on one hand Paul says to women, submit and be chaste and pure,
yet Neglecting [silence is deafening] to mention Any solutions or spiritual reconciliation of the Fact that for most women they were sex slaves to Roman men/families and were passed around and raped repeatedly, how they redeemed being ‘chaste and pure’ as IF that was some Holy Marriage,
well I knew then, something was off. No one could answer this so I did my own research, not only that numerous parables of Jesus made a lot of sense–they were many of them, the reality of Slavery of that day, the language spoken among the slaves of that time,
therefore, 64 years later [approx the time Paul was said to have wrote], and when slavery became more brutal to Women especially,
the Reality of History did NOT add up to the type of society Paul was speaking to, not where Women were concerned, unless He was only speaking to the elite Roman women who then, yes, would have been married under the Roman family laws,
numerous babies were butchered btw By Jewish and other Mesopotamian-Middle East slaves, products of RAPES by the ROMAN MEN,
including Christian men, [recorded historical fact]
this was why numerous women yes Did use pagan medicine to kill babies of RAPES, and why the Roman Empire a.k.a. Catholic Church later went on to hunt them down like dogs,
like slavery, loss of babies [babies born to slaves were PROPERTY OF ROMAN EMPIRE], as well as in Feudalism, babies of peasants were also property of CATHOLIC-CHURCH EMPIRE, THE NEW ROME,
because they were SLAVE-PEASANT LABOR…caused by RAPES,
this is historical fact. So to much didn’t add up…and it is Myth that Roman men married these slaves, it did happen however it was looked down upon, only when the Roman women got pissed that hubby was not with her because hubby was raping his slaves, did they begin a protest, and some of the laws of marrying slaves were slightly changed,
this wasn’t Until the last of Roman empire however.
Christians of Rome-Judaism were slaves, women were Sex slaves/or slaves to the mistress of house, FACT, they were NOT married as in families of Christians,
that simply did NOT exist–except IF the master allowed two slaves to marry However any Baby born was the property of the master and was and could be raped, beaten, if the master so desired and MOST OF THEM DID,
this is why the crucifixions were horrid…because of RUN AWAY SLAVES,
the English/American portrayal of the Bible simply does not ring true for the history of Rome-Jerusalem, prior to 300 A.D., I believe this is why there is little to nothing mentioned from women’s lens OR that is Honest about the very real lives of women Christians of that time period, other than Lies and fairy tales written Hundreds of years later by the very Catholics who took stories to lure women Into the church and away from paganism…the peasants [most of whom did NOT embrace the Holy Roman Church],
so, not to argue here that there isn’t any truth to the spiritual meanings of scripture, I think there is, I think there was enough that stayed pure in Spite of the manipulations of Men who only wanted to preserve the Roman slave system,
but it Does encourage, a serious investigation into the lives then, and how they do in NO way, match up, the many of the scriptures, scriptures that are used today to enforce an Obedience to some of the worst forms of abuse,
particularly to Women.
It if anything, begs to be explored,
Sincerely,
Jane
[in addition to the two replies above] I wanted to add, the Jewish Talmud is just as much a mess [and Man's bunk] in both books, just as the NT is,
this is Why, for me personally, I opted to listen to the Spirit, to battle self-doubt, to take what the Spirit Did show me in the Word [bringing it to me, confirming things] rather than relying on the Word of man, inspired though it may be in areas, by God [God spoke through a donkey once, so He can speak through man even in his error]
and well, not to Rely on man’s interpretation, much of which was mixed with Greek ideologies/Roman, especially in regards to women.
Anyhoo, so I was in heart praying and talking to the Spirit about this, and well, Because the more I delved into the legitimacy of scriptures and the inherit Misogyny in All Abrahamic religions, etc., [as well as other religions]
He and I talked, well I listened, and well, for many even looking into many of the findings could and Would be a stumbling block
which is not my intention, so this is what He told me,
it’s like wheat, at the last stages the kernels, once seeds, do not Live and Apply the laws of nature in the same way they did when they were a Seed in the dark soil,
if a kernel was to try and live and apply itself back into the dark ground, it would die,
instead it sits, swaying in the wind, soaking up the sun and rain, waiting for the harvest…
Likewise, the problem we run into in trying to go by Scripture in understanding our Knowing GOD in this time, is that,
we the kernels, are trying to go Back to the seed and plant ourselves in the dark ground,
when we do this, we Die.
To know God is to walk With God, Man has told woman that she cannot walk with God unless she has that Bible as her utmost authority, trying to live according to laws and systems and Understanding of God back in 300 A.D. and then some,
this is why so many of the scriptures do NOT work, why so many ARE walking away from the Faith, it’s not just literal reading of the Bible, it’s attempting to box God and Spirit in, a time warp, not understanding
that seeds grow, that animals evolve with climate and environment, and that if God in His/Her wisdom made room for that,
then the same would be true for Humanity. The thing is, people Fear, they fear that in evolving that it would include moral bankruptcy, but God has instilled into all of us, natural law, a guilt when we break any disconnection or do harm to others,
the same is true with Animals, they have a sense of knowing when they wrong others.
Man has fear that IF woman learns to Listen to God, to walk with God that HE will lose power over her, HE will lose sexual entitlement because Man is selfish,
religions has protected man in this selfishness by blaming women and projecting man’s lust onto woman.
religions, created by and for MEN
God is not a man,
nor is God’s Word Man’s Word, this is why one can take scripture, quote it till blue in the face and nothing happens, it’s man’s word,
when God speaks, THINGS HAPPEN, worlds get created.
The kernel, is not at the stage of seed…therefore, we must walk with God today, not back in 300 A.D. or 64 A.D., and take those scriptures with wisdom, discernment, and not literal context,
be they Greek or Latin or Aramaic…they were written in the understanding of the time they were in…the seed in the dark ground, by numerous men who even They admitted, there were So many documents and versions that they could in NO way, be summed up all together as THE Word of God–this doesn’t include the numerous forgeries of opposing groups,
and Why is this? Maybe because, God saw to it, that Man would not have a monopoly on anything, that for those who Truly want to understand God, to Walk with God,
then they must Seek God for themselves, rather than rely through a very lazy way [as we've been trained to be as well as helpless, women esp] means of Knowing God through men vicariously…
to be kernels…wheat Knows God by nature, by just being…producing food,
knowledge is just that, to know by a system via trials and observations, we Know, that by experience that submission doesn’t work,
to be Under is one thing, to Obey is another, we know by Instinct there are times that we should NOT obey,
that Instinct, under, submitted to a natural law that GOD put inside of us, to violate that, causes cognitive dissonance.
I think, that sitting quite, listening to God, rather than man and man’s Documents, is how one gains wisdom…and I am finding, that it Works,
it’s NOT easy, but it does Work. If anything tests Trust in God,
this does…it’s a walk, on trust, but trust that WE hear…through God Himself, and not by some man’s writing back in the day when the seed was still under the dark, dark,
ground.
Sincerely,
Jane
March 22,2011
Thanks so much!! You don’t know how all of the information and the replies are helping me understand this marriage thing. Currently my hubby and I are in a struggle. I am being called by God to do someting more and he has been called as well. His call was before mine, and yet he is still very much the same growing slowly. I am excited about my call and wanting to give it my all. He questions my commitment to him and obeying him. Even me saying no to him. The scriptures are clear and as I will now add to my daily routine a search of the scripture and the meaning of each word to get a better understanding. Your site is what I want to get started in my local community for the young women of my area. We all need help trying to live up to these ideas that Man and theworld have set for wives, daughters, sister, etc to be for them, while they forget we have to be something for ourselves. We have to answer for our own salvation. Husband cannot fix it for me or answer for me. I must do that myself…
Again thanks for this beautiful thing you have started keep it up, and i will become a frequent reader of your site.
Yours In Christ,
Blessed and Gifted
Tina,
You are quite welcome!
I am very happy to be able to spare anyone the long hard way I took to learn these truths!
Continue to press into the Lord.
He will give you wisdom
Love, Charis
I started to read what you were saying but, I saw that I had been here before and I only have this to say.. In Genesis, Eve is told directly by God that her husband shall rule over her… Some then refer to submission in the new testament as if it did not mean obey. Do you think Eve didn’t know that she had to obey her husband? What about Sarah when she refered to Abraham as her lord? That means he is the boss of me doesn’t it? Hebrews chapter 13 says we are to obey all those who rule over us. Adam ruled over Eve and she was to obey him. Hebrews also tells us that the true evidence of faith is obedience and it is quite clear from scripture that God as ordered the wife to obey her husband and if she has faith in God she will obey him in all things, even if it means she obeys her husband. There are not to heads in a marriage only one. If there were two, it would be a monster. The heads would argue constantly. How else can the two become one but by doing as God commands? Wives obey your husbands.
Tom,
Your wife will be back after she tries beating her head against that brick wall for awhile. Hopefully she won’t do it for as long as I did (22 years out of our 28 1/2). Meanwhile you are missing out on the help she could be rendering you and that’s a shame because you would grow up faster and spare yourself a lot of pain if you would submit yourself to her meet Help (ezer).
Women are already taught that they have two heads.
They are already dealing with a two-headed-monster.
They are told that Jesus is their head and so it their husband and it had created a huge monster in the lives of women. They are instructed that they have two masters when Jesus said we are only to have one.
Are you truly saying that women should dispise their true Master, Jesus Christ, in order to obey the man who is trying to master her through wrongly dividing the Word of Truth? That’s what I’m hearing. You don’t want a partner, you want a servant/slave. And you twist scripture in order to get one.
So many women are done allowing men to continue to twist scripture in favor of men. We will go directly to the Source now, our true Master and Lover of our souls. The false shepherds and their disciples we will listen to no longer.
Mara, so true about the two-headed monster. [Me in cheerleader outfit shouting "Mara, Mara, she's our girl"]
——
Tom, 2 challenges for you:
Challenge 1:
Quote verses where God ORDER wives to obey husbands. Remember that submit is NOT synonymous with obey – God tells us to submit to goverment, but as for obeying goverment, the apostles openly disobeyed. And the goverment did not ask flagrant sin from the apostles at all, but tried to stop their doing what is truly best.
(There is one possible passage you could answer here, but there’s a trap in that for you. If you actually use the verse, I can link to where Charis explains it.)
Challenge 2:
Quote verses where God ORDER men to rule wives. But remember that IS and OUGHT are different. So verses that say men ARE in a position of authority does not say they SHOULD BE in one. For example, “he will rule” does not mean “he should rule.”
And since scripture is so clear, give that list of texts without any of your own explanations in between.
With all humbleness and respect, I thought I came to read a very intelligent Godly woman, but you sound very contentious.
Have you been touched by the hand of God? It doesn’t sound like it for you to make such statements like “Tom,
Your wife will be back after she tries beating her head against that brick wall for awhile…”
A woman of God, a Godly woman would never speak in such tones she would learn to humble herself. It does not matter whether it was five years of abuse or thirty. Our roles as women is to be helpmates to our husbands but when we are full of Worldly ideas and ideals God goes out the window.
Your writing style speaks a lot about your anger and some resentment of your lot as a woman. That’s too bad because in knowing God, the Road to Damascus He gave me two years ago, I love the Godly woman I am and to obey my husband is an honor because it means I follow God. Just like my husband honors his wife as he honors the church so too in honoring my husband I honor the Lord.
It does not matter where you studied or what you think you learned because in writing as you do and for other women to follow you is a shame. They do not know God how they should because if they did more women would be telling you what i am telling rather than praising you for what you write. I will pray that the Lord will touch your very soul to show you that honoring and obeying yours husband is honoring and obeying the Lord and for Him to show you the Joy you can find in that. God be with you.
LimeChip,
Writing doesn’t convey tone, apparently, because I don’t feel the least bit angry or resentful. My heart is fairly bursting with love, peace, joy, contentment, and freedom! Your way of doing marriage was death to me. I feel sorry for those who are still on that hamster wheel. Jesus as my only Master and Lord is LIFE and PEACE! But suit yourself. I’m not here to twist anyone’s arm.
What I do here is share very GOOD NEWS with those who want to hear it.
“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.” Gal 5:1
Respectfully,
Charis
Then why, LimeChip, are you speaking to Charis in “such tones” and not humbling yourself?
LimeChip, both Christianity and Judaism tells us to get justice for the oppressed. Never speaking up against a man who abuse (for thirty years!) is about as ungodly, as contrary to Christs message of love and justice as anything can be! (I truly fear for the children of people who think like that. Would you find it ungodly to chase away a child molester?)
Luk 18:11-12
I believe that at times when your husband know the perfect will of God, and tell you to do that, obeying your husband is following God. If you tell me that obeying your husband at any other time is following God, you add to the Bible things which are not in there. Make sure that what you find Godly is not idolatry (obeying your husband and calling it following God) or nice-ianity (Godly women never rebuking sharply, for rebuking sharply -Tit 1:13 – is to not humble yourself.)
With respect. You use scripture to suit your whim and that’s ok. I have seen enough people who claim to follow God with the same claims as yours and don’t know the first thing about God. But trust me when I tell you, you don’t know Him because if you did, wouldn’t be saying the things you say about your husband on this site. You would never be giving him ultimatums as if you control the show because if you knew God like you say you do, then you would know that you are not the one that controls the show, He is. He’ll let you do your thing until He tires of you messing up His good name. Then come the consequences.
Marriage was not meant to be a bed of roses and troubles do happen. You continue to be a contentious woman by writing as you do. Rather than be the Titus woman that God wants you to be.
You are right, you are not here to twist anyone’s arms but as someone who professes to know God, you have a responsibility like so many others to not glorify yourself as if you control something when you control nothing. You lead other women in the wrong path and that is a huge burden to bear because when it comes time to face Him and He asks you, what did you do for my name, what will you say? He will know about this blog and what you have written. and I guarantee you that He will not be happy about your one woman show to let everyone know the sin your husband perpetuated in the most disturbing writings I have ever read about a spouse from one who professes to know God.
Look to your own sins and not just write about his. You give the impression that he was the only one at fault in your marriage. Was there only one person in the marriage? or are you like so many women taking his sins to be bigger than yours? In God’s eyes a sin is a sin.
Why don’t you make an effort of writing about you as well, about how you failed in the marriage as well so that you can give us a clear perspective of your life rather than this one sided show. You chose to put your life out in display and for others to critique it and for you to suggest that your side and your way is the way to go is pretty narrow minded and short sighted when I can tell you from my own contentious one woman atheist show, there is another life with God in it and you, I can tell, you have not found it. But I can tell you that if you turn to God and not writing in your blog for a time and spend some really good quality time with the Lord I am sure that He can teach you a thing or two about how a woman should comport herself as a Godly God fearing woman. Not just in a marriage but also out. God be with you Charis and your husband. God bless you.
LimeChip,
The whole blog is basically about the areas where I FAILED and what God has gently and patiently taught me in order to come out from the bondage of the “hell on earth” marriage which my FAILURE enabled.
I didn’t even know I had any authority to make decisions and enforce boundaries about the atmosphere of my own home where I live with children of tender years. I didn’t learn this from my parents role model nor did I learn it from 3 decades under the teachings of evangelicalism (since my conversion at age 19). God is the one who healed me and taught me that it is GOOD for me to stand up to my husband, to hold him accountable for bad behavior and abuse. The other way of being the passive, compliant, quiet, obedient, servant ROBBED my husband of his ezer/helpMEET. That was a FAILURE on my part, LimeChip!!!
I remember that I used to struggle so much with shame about getting angry. My husband knew it and would use it, hurling accusations at me about my lack of spiritual fruit and what a hypocrite and blah, blah, blah. I remember praying often, pounding on God’s chest-so to speak- about the hell that was my marriage.
Then through Christian counseling, I received permission to be ANGRY when I or my children am treated unjustly and harshly. The next time I got angry at my husband, instead of shame, I felt God’s pleasure. He is my Father and I was a toddler learning how to walk. I wasn’t good at it. I fell down, didn’t do it right. But He held out his arms to me and said “Good job, my daughter. You get right up and keep going!”
I felt GOD’S pleasure and approval. And I still do.
My husband made his decision to submit to the ultimatums in order to preserve the marriage. He has been off porn for a couple years, has been off alcohol for a few months, and my household has been a place of peace for the most part. I am glad that I have been Sara’s daughter, repented from my FAILURE of enabling sin, and laid down the ultimatum
I am glad that I have renounced the Sapphira spirit and stopped agreeing with my husband in his lying to the Holy Spirit. (Another case of realizing my FAILURE!)
As for my blogging about it, see “WHY are you exposing these SINS?”
Limechip “But trust me when I tell you, you don’t know Him because if you did, …”
Limechip this phrase makes me NOT trust you or your wisdom because you have placed yourself as judge over another not knowing her heart.
I, along with the others, strongly disagree with your position over this. However, I would never, ever make the judgement against you that you do not know God because I disagree with you and your position.
I believe you know God. You just haven’t been delivered from some very bad and soul destroying doctrine.
Please continue to state your disagreement here if you care to. But please leave the judgments of who knows God vs who doesn’t know God to God, Himself. Though we are free to judge each other’s actions and outward attitudes, only GOD is qualified to judge the heart and motive.
Should we not give ultimatums because God runs the show? Let me try to apply that to real life. IF you are right:
- THEN, a teacher/ home schooling parent should never tell a child to know work well enough to write a test on Tuesday. Setting ultimatums will mean you run the show, not God.
- THEN, when entering a contract with a builder, a Christian should not set any ultimatum on when the work should be finished. Setting ultimatums will mean you run the show, not God.
- THEN, a husband should never set any ultimatum for his wife on anything. He don’t run the show, God does.
Should teachers, clients and husbands never set ultimatums?
You blame Charis for being contentious by contending her?
LimeChip, I’d still love an answer on at least the question of wether a mother could oppose a molester of her children, if she should never speak up even against someone who abuse for 30 years?
[...] First story:Tom made a long comment trying to argue for male rule, starting with acting as if there is an “ought” in the Genesis 3:16 prediction, incorrectly equating submission to obedience, etc. [...]
Total submission and obedience towards one’s husband is the only way to show true love for G-d! I am a Jew who is trying to help other Jewish women rediscover the values of submission and obedience. I mentor women in these skills. My husband also mentors men in becoming fully empowered as the heads and leaders of their families and commanders of their wives. I am happy to help any woman who is struggling to submit.
(((Dina)))
Keep on reading Charis’ blog – she has, for example, much great stuff on Genesis 3:16, which you also mention on yours. It will really take time to absorb what Charis teaches, but try. I think it will do you the world of good.
And perhaps you and your husband could try this book: http://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Way-Love-Marriage/product-reviews/0824604806/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending by Rabbi Maurice Lamm
Hello Dina,
Did you see my reply on the other thread? Click Here
married at 12–
my husband is Orthodox Jew and would say
you’re insane [as would the JEWISH COMMUNITY HERE IN WHICH I KNOW MANY]
but then–married at 12?
Gee, did you play with Dolls on your honeymoon,
GOOD GRIEF,
grow up — and come back, when you’re an ADULT
not a PEDO CHILD FOR PEDO SPANK MAN
AND THEN,
we can Talk about REAL ‘ADULT’ MARRIAGE
in meantime, the BDSM AND PEDO PORN CULTURE–would love to have
so called JEWS who are all into that whole PEDO-CHILD BRIDE CULTURE crap
just like Babylon…
WHAT’S NEXT–
SLAVERY AND CHILD SACRIFICE TO ‘TOBIT’?
Jane
and, as a Wife of a JEW–TRIBE OF KOHEN
I, AM INSULTED
your View and Claim do NOT REPRESENT
JUDAISM.
PERIOD
JANE
Hi Jane,
I put your two comments containing references to child rape in the pending folder because Dina testifies on her blog to being the victim of child rape (by her father?). And her husband was 15, not 50. Honestly, I wondered if its fiction because it’s so troubling. She didn’t answer me as to what country she lives in? But she calls herself an “Illegal child bride” so I assume its a western country where this sort of thing is considered criminal. Its heartbreaking for both she and her “child groom”.
Anyway, I think she needs compassion and kindness in her seeking of “how to love Hashem again”
Dina, I feel angry that your father had you, a child, marry a boy who was barely more than a child himself.
But I’m happy that the boy grew up and felt it his duty, as a man, to get you and your children out of a bad situation. This makes me want to respect him for his care over you.
It is my prayer that the liberating knowledge of G-d would wash over you and your husband and all your children including the ones you carry.
No, I do not feel that it is a woman’s ‘duty’ to obey her husband. For the sake of harmony and unity there are definitly times to submit. But in my view, the submission should go both ways. When it is only one way, all the time, then the person who does all the submitting loses who G-d made them to be.
But from what I gather of your story, perhaps your will as a human being was so hindered in your family of origin (your father’s house) that it was required for you husband to remove you from it, deciding this on his own.
I just hope that he can continue to grow and see you as a whole person such as himself and a worthy partner/helpmeet for him to listen to and come into agreement with rather than one to rule.
Here is what G-d said in Hosea concerning Israel
Hosea 2:16 “And it will come about in that day,” declares the LORD, “That you will call Me Ishi (my husband) And will no longer call Me Baali (my master).
vs 17 “For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, So that they will be mentioned (remembered) by thier names no more.”
If G-d wanted Israel to know Him as MY Husband rather than MY Master, why do earthly men try to make themselves masters over their brides?
From this passage it is clear that a husband and a master are two different things and not one in the same. And G-d doesn’t want to be a ‘master’ but a ‘husband’ to Israel.
Men who want to make themselves masters over their wives do not do this in the Spirit of G-d but in the sinfulness of their own flesh.
May your husband come to this knowlege and may you rise up to the complete person G-d made you into so you can be an even better helpmeet to him.
Charis when I saw the ‘married at 12′ it SCREAMED
red flag
you Do know, I hope, that MEN, with these SEX CULTS, do stalk these forums
portraying themselves AS women, the tip off is that they Always justify the ‘acts and SEX needs of men–focusing on submission, porn and rape culture, pedo spank culture, and YES many of them will also fake as ‘sex victims’,
it’s part of the BDSM culture, so BE AWARE
it’s one thing for survivors to speak–it’s’ Quite another for supposedly Survivors to speak AND then pander/attempt to INFLUENCE to women, on the merits of Submission and ONLY on submission–
with the added sympathy but it’s a snare–
I didn’t see any reference to childhood anything, what I wrote in response to was the title [a good give away actually, BDSM's often use the bdsm names/avatar's], the Heavy reference to ‘I TEACH women to submit’
and there IS a POSER sect of Judaism or Cults using that–[that is more like Islam, my husband told me] that is hedonistic,
focusing on Sex–and the rest of the law, nada
dealing with these types often, which I do on other blogs that Deal with confronting the bdsm/porn culture, you learn to recognize the language and methods
and their attacks on women’s blogs ARE getting worse, Christian blogs included
anyway–I thought about it this morning–if I came on too strong, prayed about it, something kept bugging me, it dawned on me, what it was
the PROBLEM with the American or Western ‘church’ culture, is not just men–it’s the women,
and it started WAY before the fifties, not going to get into all that right now but it’s related to the Gilded [gold] age, and Depression Era–
the corruption, that is–the thing is, well, it’s like this…there is Too much ‘flirting’ with fire today–has been for long time, I’m talking Women here,
due to false teaching.
So, the best example, I can give, is this….what God showed me–
there are these birds, on rocky coasts, female mother birds–
they have laid eggs
they get careless some of them–and scout off, getting complacent and trusting of the ‘safety’ around them, it’s an isolated island you see
there are other pirate birds, always watching, predators–the Second the mother birds go off, even a short distance, leaving their children or eggs alone
the other birds, who look very similar, swoop in, you see they’ve been on this same island with the other birds, posing no Visual threat
they swoop in, take the eggs/new born
off they go
it’s too late, the mother birds come back, even if she comes back and the predator bird is there–the predator bird has too hard of a grip, they fight, the mother struggles,
but the predator takes off, baby in toe…
the Porn culture, is not a bird to tolerate–it is Mixed wine,
and it’s after the children in the nest
we cannot play nice, nor can we be understanding,
they rely on our ignorance, of their threat
Women, you need to be Aware, of what and how the internet is being used–for those you CANNOT SEE,
to lure many in, to accepting false ‘cult’ doctrines,
IF sects are wanting to return to OT types of laws, then they should be Emphasizing on the whole law
when they emphasize on SEX–MEN’S DESIRE FOR SEX, ESPECIALLY SUBMISSIVE WOMEN/WOMEN AS CHILDREN/CHILDREN OR CHILD BRIDES
then, well–
it’s either, you Fight to protect the eggs in nest
or you, simply take, the isolated island and safety for granted
LOVE,
Jane
IT’S not whether we are submissive ‘sex’ toys for husbands
it’s whether or not, WE ARE WOMEN WHO FEAR GOD, WHO RAISE
GODLY CHILDREN
AND LIKE BEARS–WILL FIGHT EVEN THE MEN IF THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES
TO PROTECT THOSE CHILDREN–FROM THE SEXUAL PREDATORS, INCLUDING THOSE WHO PARADE AROUND IN
SO CALLED SHEEP’S CLOTHING, WHO ARE PEDOPHILE ‘CULTS’
IF we don’t protect the children–WHO WILL? when someone says,
married at 12 THEN says…I teach women to submit–and ONLY focus’s on that
you BET–I AM GOING TO DEFEND THE NEST–
with no apologies–and praying to God, I have Peace–so,
ok then.
Jane
Jane,
Your vision about the mother bird and her eggs is relevant to Dina, but not in the way you are thinking. (see her post here)
I don’t think Dina is a male troll pretending in order to recruit women into a sex cult, because no healthy mother is going to think what happened to her as a child is “good” or “desirable”. I think her testimony has the opposite effect. One wants to run the opposite direction from the teachings which enabled such violation and betrayal of an innocent, trusting, vulnerable little girl.
At some point, Dina will need to face the fact that her mother did not PROTECT her but chose instead to be “servant” of the husband and sons and “submit” her daughters to be violated. (Her blog indicates that Dina was sexually abused at a very young age to “train” her for marriage).
But I am not sure Dina is ready yet to face the grief, betrayal, and pain that this truth will bring?
just one thought, Charis, comes to mind
Moses–the Midianites,
what he said, about the ‘women’, and why they were to be Destroyed…not spared,
how they lured the men in…
many atheist’s refer to this as one of the slams against God’s morals, etc.,
but in further reading on this–the part where it was
‘women lying with men’
that isn’t lying as in bed–but lying as in lying to tell a lie
it was SORCERY
yes girls are groomed and used, in OCCULT
for marriage that isn’t really marriage but CULT PROSTITUTION IN TEMPLES,
remember, you can rape in Iran with a temporary ‘marriage certificate’, FACT
and this is what THESE CULTS ARE DOING Charis
grooming these girls
now, yes…is it horrid for these young women to see how they’ve been victimized and used,
YES
remember, I am a survivor of RA [and it's heavy into ancestry of occult in both GOVERNMENT AND CRIMINAL ELEMENTS AND RELIGION/CHURCH]
and I was groomed to be a whore–so Yes I KNOW
she’s going to Find out anyway–and it’s going to be hell,
but it’s MORE HELL FOR HER TO NOT KNOW, TO CONTINUE BEING
CAPTIVE
that’s how Satan works
I WISH I had of known years ago–rather than 30 something years of my life consumed, robbed and used for evil
years I CAN’T GET BACK
so, no, TRUTH
IS FREEDOM, FROM CAPTIVITY
we cast OUT the demons
we don’t PROTECT the demons
LOVE–DOES NOT REJOICE IN INIQUITY
we NEED to expose the darkness in Love–but Love that isn’t
timid
EITHER WE BELIEVE IN GOD’S POWER TO SET FREE
OR WE DON’T
we–are losing this battle because we are acting like compromising timid mice
mice in a maize in Dr Frankenstein of Babylon’s Lab
what has been done–to many women–is HORRID
but, we DON’T SAVE OTHER’S
by tip-pie toeing around TRUTH
and Don’t think–the Whore of Babylon that IS working behind these
OCCULTS
doesn’t KNOW THIS….
and doesn’t Use these young girls to LURE men AND women–
into her trap
Proverbs–the whore in streets [whore there is sorcery btw]
and the voice of Wisdom
WISDOM SCREAMS–WARNING
WISDOM doesn’t invite for tea and scones and DR. PHIL’S IT TO DEATH
Love
Jane
Charis…referring here, to Confronting the lies of both Cults and ultra-patriarchal Abusers of Women
as far as Dina goes…
you know I confront the ‘isms’, that are being used–
I stand corrected–on that no she isn’t a man–using said cult to infiltrate,
on that I was wrong–over-reacted in BIG way–dealing with yes,
WOMEN, sad to say, what we in Radical Feminist world call
‘fun feminist’ or ‘sex positive’ meaning, ‘we’ll screw anything’ feminism
who on blogs, I ALONG WITH MANY OTHERS WHO ARE FIGHTING PORN, TRAFFICKING, PORN CULTURE
have had horrible run in’s with, Particularly the BDSM types
one I really had time with was a BDSM who goes by name of ‘bunny’
you want to talk OCCULT influences–and many of these BDSM porn types
are Jesuits, Christian backgrounds, Judaic, you name it–it’s’ OUT THERE
AND THEY ARE TARGETING CHILDREN
so, yea I’m a little ZERO TOLERANT right now
with my background and all
Dina–my apologies
on the other hand
you need to be free, your whole family does
you know–Submission,
submarines, sub as in under
BUT SUBMARINES STILL GO, THEY STILL DRIVE, THEY STILL COME UP FOR AIR
animals–females, PROTECT CHILDREN–FIRST,
all of them, Bears [Elijah]
female bears, lions, will fight and Kill the males to the death to protect those children
BUT THEY ARE SUBMISSIVE
under the forces of nature-God or G_d
[my husband writes it out the latter way too]
submissive is NOT CHILD LIKE
and it applies to ALL OF US, inter-related to all things, plants, animals, each other, etc., HARMONY
if it’s not HARMONY–IT’S NOT OF LIFE, GOD
if it’s A FAKE HARMONY WITH ONE ‘DEAD’ DOLL
it’s OCCULT
or CULT LIKE
when submission is ERASURE
then it’s an empty clay doll–being molded and formed by a HANDLER
that is OCCULT
Malachi–TO RAISE GODLY CHILDREN
that takes submission with POWER, best example I think we see is in nature,
how the Feminine works in nature, it’s far from child-like, weak, passive, and erased….
there’s a difference, between Respect and Honor of man
and PHALLIC WORSHIP
phallic worship, comes from the Babylonian and other ancient CULTS
and the FRUIT–2000 YEARS WORTH, shows,
in their raping of earth for GOLD–poisoning WATER, killing thousands of women/children and A BED OF PROSTITUTION FORCED
diamonds–BLOOD AND RAPE AND EARTH BUTCHERING
minerals–same thing
consumption IDOLATRY
and PATRIARCHY is all about that, feeds into that, and IS THE BONDAGE OF EGYPT
dumb down child women = erased souls = zombie consumers
who buy blood goods, feeding the sex lust of men who refuse to SUBMIT TO GOD
making men, penis’s into gods
yea–no other way to say it really,
Eve–should have tilled the ground and PROTECTED THE GARDEN
THE EARTH
now–like the EARTH, MOTHER EARTH
SHE IS RAPED, IN SORROW, AND TARRED OVER IN CEMENT AND BONDAGE
while animals die in the thousands [mass deaths], children die with worms and horrid abuses [hell] on EARTH, and the earth is poisoned
so that a FEW–WHITE MEN
can be ‘gods’
think about it.
Love
Jane
Which Really–where that few ‘elite’ bondage of Egypt ‘white men as gods’ really is
is the OCCULT–THAT
HITLER
WAS OBSESSED WITH…THE ORIENT
many have morphed into the oppressor,
it’s that thing called
Iniquity
so much of what looks like moral law and God
is really just a moral mask lie–
Hitler loved morals–pure seed–rape camps–CHILD LIKE SUBMISSIVE WOMEN UNDER
MUTTERLAND
Over and Over and Over and Over in God’s law,
HE warns about not neglecting the POOR AND NEEDY, NOT TO OPPRESS, NOT TO ENSLAVE/PAY UNFAIR WAGES,
THAT IS WHAT OUR FOCUS AS
GODLY WOMEN SHOULD BE
when our focus is on dress and sex
SOMETHING IS ‘OFF’
way off
if all it took, was having masses of children, to glorify God
then MUSLIMS ARE THE SHINING EXAMPLE
aren’t they?
MUTTERLAND and EUGENICS would be PRIME
no–this is and always will be, the taking of ONE TEXT–
cherry picking scriptures, NATIONALISM
mixed wine–with politics, patriarchy male power
CORRUPT
making men into ‘gods’
but ARE these men, fighting for the
POOR, NEEDY, OPPRESSED, ENSLAVED, THOSE WITH NO WATER, NO FOOD, NO LAND TO GROW FOOD
OR ARE THESE MEN
OBSESSED WITH
POWER AND SEX???????
BY THEIR ‘FRUITS’ YE SHALL KNOW THEM
even OLD TESTAMENT–
is ALL ABOUT
being GODLY
BOOK OF AMOS
says it very well
THIS–IS WHAT WOMEN ARE TO HOLD UP
reaching out to the poor, needy, beauty inside [one can cover up in steel armor but if she ignores the poor--and supports systems of oppression, that covering is the equivalent of a tent over a dung pile--it's no better than the pole dancer]
THIS IS MY BELIEF
who do I think are Godly women?
Those poor, naked in rags women in Africa–who in dire poverty, no water, oppressed, Still love, Still do all to care for their children,
community and who stand for what’s Right
LET me be like HER
the black cloaked but wearing lingerie in Middle East–the consumer pious religious doll of West–the religious or pagan consumer not caring about the BLOOD GOODS of world–
is nothing, Godly or even Respectable
in my strong opinion….
the LIGHTS that shine–are those poor in rags women, who LOVE OTHER’S IN ACTION
BY THEIR LIVES
not their sex or fuckability or how many children they bear or how much they worship the man dick king
THOSE WHO LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES–SO THAT OTHERS
CAN LIVE
to me
IS THE SHINING LIFE
OF GOD WITHIN.
I don’t see that in patriarchal religions–what I see, is a bunch of
dead man’s bones and dead women in a lot of material
material btw–cotton–mostly by SLAVE CHILDREN
IN UZBEKISTAN
that wastes tons of water–what water hasn’t been POISONED WITH
LEAD, ARSENIC, THROUGH ‘GOLD MINING’ TO THE
PHARAOHS
Love
Jane
What a WONDERFUL blog! You are awesome and so is our Father
Hi Charis,
Wow. I just stumbled across your site and let me tell you it was no accident. I have been walking steadily with the Lord, imperfectly, but steadily, and just this evening the Lord freed me from bondage to my husband. I can’t tell you how AMAZING it was to know there are other women out there who can respectfully have standards in the name of the Lord. This is a totally new concept for me. I’ve always been such a submissive women – in all my relationships. And it would burn me to the point of tears and depression – and now I’m free. Just like that. I don’t have to be that hurting, obliging women – I am so HAPPY right now. This totally hurls me into an ever deeper love for the Lord to know how much he wants to protect me and guide me to live in dignity and peace.
This doesn’t mean I’m getting a divorce or anything – but it does mean that I will declare my wisdom in the Lord with more confidence and less fear and shyness. I know what my God wants for me and it’s NOT to be treated any less than as a child of God!
Thank you, thank you, thank you – for not being too proud to share your experience and strengthening other women through your points of weakness! I love your site – I trust God will fill your days with love & blessings!
I rejoice with you, anonymous!
“It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery!” Gal 5:1
I am so grateful to the Lord for turning on the light switches for me! May He continue to do so for you and many others…
Is it Biblical to say that the wife is to take care of the cleaning of the house and that it’s not the husbands role at all? Even if both work? Also, what about spending time with friends? What if the husband says, “I don’t feel it in my spirit that she is the right friend for you”, for every friend the wife has had, so that she is left with only him now. If I don’t obey, he gets extremely angry.
No, that isn’t “biblical” Josie. That’s an “entitlement” mentality. And isolating you from friendships is controlling.